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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:10 pm 
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IQ wrote:
The weed provokes them to do it.....As in it is their goal or aim/incentive...


So would any addiction.

Those people are supposed to be in jail for this reason anyway!(or in a physical institute)

you're "argument" makes no sense.

You want to ban it , because people can get addicted to it.
By you're logic , Battledawn should be banned!

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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:36 pm 
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But this addiction is more serious....Weed since it is so populour is addictive more!

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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:42 pm 
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IQ wrote:
But this addiction is more serious....Weed since it is so populour is addictive more!

Ok , I will start ignoring your post now.
I'm not wasting my time on "brainwashed" guys like you.

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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:31 am 
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even as the devil's advocate, i am going to point out that rederoin is correct here, although weed does affect emotions, its effect in increasing violence is minimal, almost 0 compared with say... alcohol.

Quote:
1. the drug is the most likely to cause psychosis out of the relatively "soft" drugs (moreso then LSD). in other words, im establishing it has a negative side effect, that occurs faster and is more apparent then liver cancer from drinking.

2. the drug is known as a gateway drug, taking it often results in taking harder substances, this is a slippery slope, but it is well documented where people that use "hard" drugs, only did so after taking marijuana, correlation doesnt result in causation but... yeah. the numbers are there

3. overall detrimental to society, also, pretty much no countries have the drug with a traditional value attached (unlike smokes and alcohol)
lets compare to say... cigarettes in australia. these things are taxxed ridiculously... (roughly $15 for 25 cigarettes) due to aggressive government campaigns against them spanning more then a decade.
15% of the cost goes to the manufacturer (suppliers)
15% goes to the retailer (people who sell the cigarettes)
70% goes to tax where i think it was 80% of that gets directly funneled into hospitals.
as you can see, tobacco is taxxed to the extreme.
and it pays itself off due to smokers funding hospitals directly.
this is because
1) tobacco is hard to grow efficiently illegally
2) tobacco is hard to import illegally (but some illegal stuff does get in, cant stop it all)
so there are no dealers undercutting the legal market with cheaper tobacco, hence, no competition and massive taxxed cigs help save lives in hospitals while people are free to enjoy your cancer tubes.

marijuana on the other hand is INCREDIBLY easy to grow.
$500 can set you up with a state of the art hydroponic shed, capable of efficient returns and all the directions are on the internet in legal DETAILED documents showing how to grow hydroponic... strawberries for example.
such illegality would undercut government taxxing on a drug that is obviously negative. hence, no one would buy the legal stuff. hence society suffers and hospitals would have to deal with an influx of emphysema and psychosis and a variety of other problems associated with the drug.

in short, other then the ability for a new way to kill yourself, there is no overall beneficial value to cannabis.

4. again, a slippery slope. but legalising another drug would simply call for the legalisation of others. as a recreational drug, marijuana isnt a whole lot more safer then LSD. are you for LSD?


unedited 4 arguments i presented before, rederoin, would you like a shot, anarchy still cant get past point 1.

just noticed i did edit it and left the 5th over the top argument out, but thats because no one can beat it :D

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Last edited by mrducky on Sun May 16, 2010 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:50 am 
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Certain indivudals are "at risk for schizophrenia" this just means they have higher chances of being pushed towards having schizophrenia by other factors. It is impossible to tell if you are one of these people.
Modern weed has been proven to be a major factor in pushing these "at risk" people towards schizophrenia. This is due to the diffrence between modern weed and 60s weed. Modern weed has no more "buffers" in it that reduce the possible damage caused by TLC thus creating a "better high" the reaction of the stronger weed + at tisk person = schizophrenia

legaliseing weed would be like the govrnment telling citisens to take their chances at getting schizophrenia

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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 1:46 am 
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Zudamar wrote:
Certain indivudals are "at risk for schizophrenia" this just means they have higher chances of being pushed towards having schizophrenia by other factors. It is impossible to tell if you are one of these people.
Modern weed has been proven to be a major factor in pushing these "at risk" people towards schizophrenia. This is due to the diffrence between modern weed and 60s weed. Modern weed has no more "buffers" in it that reduce the possible damage caused by TLC thus creating a "better high" the reaction of the stronger weed + at tisk person = schizophrenia

legaliseing weed would be like the govrnment telling citisens to take their chances at getting schizophrenia


I was trying to get at that....

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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 6:06 am 
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Quote:
unedited 4 arguments i presented before, rederoin, would you like a shot, anarchy still cant get past point 1.
I'll try :P


1. the drug is the most likely to cause psychosis out of the relatively "soft" drugs (moreso then LSD). in other words, im establishing it has a negative side effect, that occurs faster and is more apparent then liver cancer from drinking.
That cannabis has negative side-effects is indeed true , but that shouldn't affect its "legal" status.
Somebody should have a choice of what he puts into his body. The government should not intervene(spelling?) with that(unless their under 16)


2. the drug is known as a gateway drug, taking it often results in taking harder substances, this is a slippery slope, but it is well documented where people that use "hard" drugs, only did so after taking marijuana, correlation doesnt result in causation but... yeah. the numbers are there
It is known as a gate-way drug , because most people think , weed is the first drug that those "hard drug users" used , but that's not correct , the first drug most people take(besides medicine) is nicotine or alcohol , weed is is seen as cause , because its the most used illegal (soft-)drug.

3. overall detrimental to society, also, pretty much no countries have the drug with a traditional value attached (unlike smokes and alcohol)
lets compare to say... cigarettes in australia. these things are taxxed ridiculously... (roughly $15 for 25 cigarettes) due to aggressive government campaigns against them spanning more then a decade.
15% of the cost goes to the manufacturer (suppliers)
15% goes to the retailer (people who sell the cigarettes)
70% goes to tax where i think it was 80% of that gets directly funneled into hospitals.
Could be done for weed.

as you can see, tobacco is taxxed to the extreme.
and it pays itself off due to smokers funding hospitals directly.
this is because
1) tobacco is hard to grow efficiently illegally
2) tobacco is hard to import illegally (but some illegal stuff does get in, cant stop it all)
so there are no dealers undercutting the legal market with cheaper tobacco, hence, no competition and massive taxxed cigs help save lives in hospitals while people are free to enjoy your cancer tubes.




marijuana on the other hand is INCREDIBLY easy to grow.
$500 can set you up with a state of the art hydroponic shed, capable of efficient returns and all the directions are on the internet in legal DETAILED documents showing how to grow hydroponic... strawberries for example.
such illegality would undercut government taxxing on a drug that is obviously negative. hence, no one would buy the legal stuff. hence society suffers and hospitals would have to deal with an influx of emphysema and psychosis and a variety of other problems associated with the drug.

in short, other then the ability for a new way to kill yourself, there is no overall beneficial value to cannabis.
1) You can easily grow a few plants(which is legal here)of weed yes , but to produce huge amounts of weed , chances are , you will get noticed.(high energy usage)
2) A "joint" is as big as a cigarette. , I don't see how one of them would be harder to import than the other.

And if its allowed to be sold legally , at-least some money would go to the taxes , if it gets legal(and you aren't allowed to grow it in you're home).
The rate at which it is sold illegally won't change.
The only real thing that would change is : selling it in coffee-shops , maybe it would be sold at the grocery stores. And possession would be legal.

To make sure people don't buy it illegal , they should increase the jail time/fines on it , heavily , maybe even life-long? I'm pretty sure nobody would want to risk life-long(specificily in the U.S.A :twisted: ) in prison , to get cheaper weed , and dealers would prefer to set up a legal coffee-shops.



4. again, a slippery slope. but legalising another drug would simply call for the legalisation of others. as a recreational drug, marijuana isnt a whole lot more safer then LSD. are you for LSD?
As far as I know (don't know that much about LSD) its far more dangerous , but that doesn't really matter now.
Getting weed legalized is easier , than getting both LSD and cannabis legalized , at the same time.
And LSD can be used as a "date-rape"(??) , so that should stay illegal.

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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 9:44 am 
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Zudamar wrote:
Certain indivudals are "at risk for schizophrenia" this just means they have higher chances of being pushed towards having schizophrenia by other factors. It is impossible to tell if you are one of these people.
Modern weed has been proven to be a major factor in pushing these "at risk" people towards schizophrenia. This is due to the diffrence between modern weed and 60s weed. Modern weed has no more "buffers" in it that reduce the possible damage caused by TLC thus creating a "better high" the reaction of the stronger weed + at tisk person = schizophrenia

legaliseing weed would be like the govrnment telling citisens to take their chances at getting schizophrenia

True to a point,
Code:
Studies have found that THC can cause schizophrenia-like symptoms in some. Most experts do not believe this. It is more likely that marijuana can trigger the emergence of schizophrenia in persons who are already predisposed to developing schizophrenia. This probably includes anyone with a strong family history of schizophrenia.

This is an article directly from the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, one of the most prestigious college's in the country for medical studies.

Thus if a young person is genetically at risk for schizophrenia, the research suggests the use of marijuana can cause the same kind of damage the schizophrenia would cause, which could bring on the illness when it might otherwise have not have emerged, cause earlier onset, and/or worsen the condition.

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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 11:47 am 
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Thats EXACTLY why weed is not good. Why the hell would you want your *CENSORED* life to be like that? Then other people might get lured into this son-of- a *CENSORED* drug! Thats not good is it!?

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 Post subject: Re: Legalizing weed.
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 12:49 pm 
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Did you not read what I typed?
Quote:
Thus if a young person is genetically at risk for schizophrenia, the research suggests the use of marijuana can cause the same kind of damage the schizophrenia would cause, which could bring on the illness when it might otherwise have not have emerged, cause earlier onset, and/or worsen the condition.

The marijuana doesn't cause this illness it just shows signs of it before hand, like previously stated in first few posts it's your body that reacts to different situations, which Ducky clearly misread also.

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