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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:56 pm 
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aviturg wrote:
Spyda wrote:
I could Boost 6000 metal.
Then give reds to my entire alliance.
They could boost 6000 metal 11 more times (13 on earth)
And give the metal back to me.

That means i could have...
72,000 metal by tick 105.

The same goes with oil

That is enough to buy EVERY structure and build an army strong enough to destroy most armies in the world single-handedly.


Yet, no one has ever done that. why?... because first of all, you are limited by workers. you could have 1,000,000 metal, it still won't help you build more than the workers you have.
second, assuming you wanted to get all this metal, it means that neither of your teammates donates (let's assume you are not using multies). now you tell me... alliance of 14, one player boosted like hell, but others didnt boost at all (they are all blocked by cooldowns)... in which server did you see such an alliance taking over the world on tick 150?...

Quote:
It is simply closing a loophole that some players have been exploiting.


"loophole" means something that is rarely noticed and once noticed by few they can "exploit" it. something that is there, known by everyone and used by whoever wants to use it, is not a "loophole", give me a break.

Quote:
I'm sure your $50 a era will be replaced by those who continue on playing.


Oh. You are sure. that is great. although... those people are playing now and dont donate. so you sure that they will start donating now. because you asked them i guess?...
let's assume you did ask them, and they are all willing to cover our "$50 a era"... if you donate $50 a era, you don't farm 13 people for metal and oil, honey. you are talking about people that spend $3K per era. so i hope you have your allowance ready to cover for this.



OHH I love a good debate.


1st. the metal. Yes you would be limited by workers... to a point.

However would still have ALL the structures built and with stay with me now everything lv 5 you'd be making 45 workers a day... plus any boosted ones. OH and let's add the conquers you would get from your 10 squad range-tank army at tick 105. Let's say you only managed to pull in 15... and those pesky resource OP... well let's add another 5... OH and gosh darn it, you know you get workers from razing regular OP's too well only count a meager 5 ops a day . 45+15+5+5+20 = 90 Workers just off your stuff. now with overhead you'd probably only get 75 or 80 but when you consider the rest of your alliance's holdings and CRYSTALS. suddenly you could be making over 100 workers in a day without even boosting a single blue token.

But I mean Hey. Everyone's capable of making over of 30 tank units a day. Thing is NOBODY should be able to this early.

It has been done. Just not to the extent possible. As I mentioned in my first post. You're thinking of just squads structures are the main drain of metal and oil early on. IF you could have Nukes, an ion cannon, and a shield, and infinite energy on tick 50 an avg army would be unstoppable. Not to mention the one that could be made from the numbers above.

2nd. "Loophole" since you want to argue semantics -
a means of escape or evasion; a means or opportunity of evading a rule, law, etc.: There are a number of loopholes in the tax laws whereby corporations can save money.
^Webster's Dictionary^ ;)

3rd. Yes it's true. I don't donate $3000 an era. And yet. I still manage to have NEVER not ranked in the top 3. IF donating massive amounts is what wins then I don't see it.

Fact is NOBODY donates 3000 dollars an era i don't care what you say. post screen shots of your receipts. I've donated, you get them.
You honestly expect me or anyone to believe that you've boosted 60,000+ red tokens in a single era? :roll: Really? :roll: I'm supposed to believe that? :roll: AND that you've done it multiple times? :roll: I'm sincerely hope you won that round. :roll:

And even if you did that would be a prime example as to why this needs to be fixed. While you should in theory be able to boost that many tokens if you did every boost imagine able daily. You should not be able to do them all on the SAME DAY at the SAME TIME.

You want the truth? Well here you go deary.

IF BD continues to make this behavior acceptable. Players will quit.
And when a $500 an era booster (which is a lot) continually meets and loses to your imaginary $3K booster. They will quit.
And when there is no one left to boost and beat. Your 3 thousand dollar man will recede back into the crevices of your mind to never be heard from again. and BattleDawn will die.

Think about it. If battledawn put on a banner 3k to play. How many players would this game have??? Zero. Because the one person who would pay would have no one to play against and leave.

Free players, and Small boosters have to have a chance and at least be able to taste some success or BD will collapse. Period

FACT is this rule has been in effect since the token system was instated. There was just an error with the system. It's still your money it's still your tokens. BUT just like a 15 year old can't walk into a bar give a guy a $20 bill and say order me a drink and LEGALLY get it. You can't give someone reds to boost for you. Just like you can't give someone your log-in info so they can attack, move, or do anything else for you.

Just because some people do it doesn't make it right. and if there is a way to fix the gap in the system, by all means do so.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:17 am 
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Everyone after 12 pages of comments I just want to point out one thing: the people who are against this stupid update have one thing in common - they actually won real servers and are true pros

The ones for it are 90% newbs with 0 wins or some fringe server wins that mean nothing

So the people who 1. support the game and the salaries of all involved and 2. are the top quartile of players and the creme de la creme of BD have made their point.

For once people who fought each other across the top servers of BD (ARM, GIFT, KOH, SYN, etc) actually agree on something...BD is slowly but surely going down the drain and unless something is done none of us will be back again.

Ball is in your court dear admins and developers....

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:27 am 
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Quote:
Fact is NOBODY donates 3000 dollars an era i don't care what you say. post screen shots of your receipts. I've donated, you get them.
You honestly expect me or anyone to believe that you've boosted 60,000+ red tokens in a single era? Really? I'm supposed to believe that? AND that you've done it multiple times? I'm sincerely hope you won that round.


This is very much true Spyda. Last era on M4 I bought 3000 tokens every second day. Add another 200 dollars of tokens before that during normal gameplay. We had a 1200 tick war, so you do the math. 3000 tokens every 48 - 72 ticks. So did my team mates and they actually spent more. Avi bought 3k tokens a day. People do spend a lot. This is one of the costliest games out there.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:35 am 
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cosmin1980 wrote:
Everyone after 12 pages of comments I just want to point out one thing: the people who are against this stupid update have one thing in common - they actually won real servers and are true pros

The ones for it are 90% newbs with 0 wins or some fringe server wins that mean nothing

So the people who 1. support the game and the salaries of all involved and 2. are the top quartile of players and the creme de la creme of BD have made their point.

For once people who fought each other across the top servers of BD (ARM, GIFT, KOH, SYN, etc) actually agree on something...BD is slowly but surely going down the drain and unless something is done none of us will be back again.

Ball is in your court dear admins and developers....


I don't get it... Maybe I'm just slow...

Someone please explain it to me.

Seriously "Pro's" help me out.

IT WAS/IS AGAINST THE RULES.

PEOPLE SUBVERTED THE RULES.

A FIX IS BEING MADE SO THIS CAN NO LONGER HAPPEN.

What part of this am I not getting, or is incorrect?

IF you really are "Pro's" then you should be able to win playing the game the way it was designed. Heck, you should mop the floor with all of us losers without any boosting at all right?

(((Shhh don't tell anyone but last time I checked real pro's got paid obscene amounts of money to play their respective games, not vice versa.)))

Just sayin. :lol:

Oh and for the record my first era 3 years ago, was the only time i've EVER not ended a era outside the top 3. and I don't think I've donated more than $150 TOTAL. But.... you're the one's with exceptional skills. As evident by the fact so many "Pro's" are threatening to quit if they lose the massive (and if your pros unnecessary) advantage that they WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE TO BEGIN WITH.

once again Just sayin to all the pro BD players out there. 8-)


mfreak wrote:
Quote:
Fact is NOBODY donates 3000 dollars an era i don't care what you say. post screen shots of your receipts. I've donated, you get them.
You honestly expect me or anyone to believe that you've boosted 60,000+ red tokens in a single era? Really? I'm supposed to believe that? AND that you've done it multiple times? I'm sincerely hope you won that round.


This is very much true Spyda. Last era on M4 I bought 3000 tokens every second day. Add another 200 dollars of tokens before that during normal gameplay. We had a 1200 tick war, so you do the math. 3000 tokens every 48 - 72 ticks. So did my team mates and they actually spent more. Avi bought 3k tokens a day. People do spend a lot. This is one of the costliest games out there.


Seriously?
Well I stand corrected.
All I have to say is since your computer still works I assume you won. Because had that been me, and I lost I would've broken some stuff.

All that to me comes down to leadership. There is no reason for that to ever happen. IF everyone's boosting to the max then let's just fight now. I would never have allowed a situation like that to arise. A 1200 tick war what is that?

The games the exact same if everyone's on steroids. So why bother. Just out skill them.

And for those who say it can't be done, and that there's no skill in BD. While everyone knows how to build armies, There are many maneuvers that are out there. It is those and as in real life diplomacy that will lead to real victory.

I spent 1000 real dollars and won 5000 in game non-refundable, non-transferable blue tokens. and tons of people complain and don't like me, but I won so I had fun YAY!
----

I spent 30 bucks and came away with 3000 of the blue boys. Made some friends and got some respect while having fun.


Who's the real winner here?

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Last edited by Spyda on Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 12:52 am 
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@Spyda:

I will not quote you because this is getting a little bit too long, let me just reply to your points:

1. your calculation of armies as for tick 105 - you can have those conquers, ops, and whatever you mentioned there with a mighty army of 20 units, you don't need 10 squads. you only need to be active. therefore, all the things you added in there other than reds are irrelevant. more than this, if you check, mass donators in average are usually less active than non-donators (this is mainly why they donate), so they will have less conquers etc.

2. structures - here is a flash news to you. most players, and especially the boosters are done with structures way way WAY before tick 100. usually by tick 5 they are all done. without farming, and without transferring resources. so again, it is irrelevant.

3. workers - i did this "tokens farming", but i did it in a real alliance where about 8-10 players were boosters. what can i tell you, i never had 100 workers per day, not even 50. in fact, the only time when i got close to 50 workers per tick was when i was in GIFT where all players were boosters and you could not do any tokens farming.

3. you don't donate $3k per era, and still you never ranked less than #3. Haven't this alone contredict your whole point? activity can match boosting. booters use boosting to overcome inactivity, late start, etc.

4. you don't believe people are donating $3K per era, well, good for you. BD can look into it and find out. As for myself, i stopped playing because of other questionable decision made by admins.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:01 am 
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Spyda the problem here is:

People sent tokens to their team mates, in order to use their boosts. This apparently is wrong and against the rules (Which is a stupid rule btw). So now the admins have come forward to enforce this rule.

The reason it is wrong is because, it will result in less spending which is not good for BD.

Now, lets get real for a moment. What skill are you really talking about? You have played this game for what 3 eras now? Ill tell you something. This game requires ZERO skills. This game is ALL about activity and Money. That is all there is to it. This is no rocket science. This game does not have any element of strategy or skill to it.

Now there are people, who are older (around 30 yrs of age or above) who have lots of disposable income. They spend enormous amounts of money on the game just because they can. Now they always win. Is BD gonna tell these people to just leave by enforcing this rule? That does no good.

There is a clear disconnect between the status of the game and the admins perception of it. Today BD is a "who has the largest squads wins the game" contest. Large squads with all the upkeep is only possible with boosting. Trust me without Reds you CANT win.

Now what cosmin said - Its the players who win round after round - who are mostly mass supporters that have played this game for a long time. The ones complaining are people that dont spend a lot and therefore lose eras. So they are naturally against it. But who are the ones responsible for BDs income? Its the ones that win and mass support. Enforcing this rule only alienates the mass supporters and they will obviously quit hurting BD a lot.

So you have to understand, this isnt a question of skill or strategy. This is about what it takes to win an era and about how a stupid rule can both drive people away and render BD bankrupt by driving away those people that have both played for a long time and spent a lot, for a long time.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:25 am 
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You keep saying it is bad and stupid for BD when it actually kills competition and makes smaller boosters stop boosting once this guy boosting 2k comes in at early tick and kills everyone. these people stop playing/stop boosting.

The reason you are boosting 2k is because your going through a loophole and buying other players boosts. Now Seth and Andrew have already said this is against the rules and will start being enforced more. There has been no mention of them wanting to change it so you can buy other players boosts.

please correct me if I am wrong.

-Trevor

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:32 am 
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Thanks for not quoting it was getting insanely long :lol:

1 & 3. I'm not saying that it's done all the time by everyone but fact is. If you can make 8 squads of range tanks early enough you. let's say you only log on once a day.... that's 8 conquers. or resource OP's or whatever meaning that if you logged on once a day. you could easily have 10 conquers and 5 resource op's. that's only 2 log ins.

The 100 workers isn't going to show in the management area, I said that would/could show near 45 workers a day. (If you have spent all your workers on army it may be more.) that example was simply to show that when boosting gets to this level early on workers are not even a limiting factor as they are still replaced just as fast at they're used. Not and actual numerical colony. For that you'd need an army those kinds conquers and op's and less than 100 workers. BUT if you spent all your stuff on metal to build an army and workers were supposed to stop you that's exactly where you would/could be. The rest of the workers could come from attacking a handful of OP's if the booster was barely alive let alone active and logged on twice a day.

2. while it's true that by then most ppl can have all the structures. as I have before, I did touch on the issue i was getting at but perhaps didn't make it clear. It's the ability to use the structures in such a way. For example with that kind of boosting you could have nukes and a real entire gate system set up before or by tick 100. You could literally be attacking players on the whole other side of the world.


I have one question.

If the rule was wrong why didn't any of you suggest that the "cooldown" was removed? Where's that topic?

The skill I'm talking about?
Being able to see when someone's going to betray you, being smarter that your enemy so that you can set a trap for them even if their army is larger. Razing certain OP's and moving to specific area to force your opponent to fight on your terms.

That's all you get for free. Anyone want more tips I accept REDS as payment. Apparently I'm around 59,800 short of being able to compete. :oops:

Actually I started playing BD 3 years ago. Not 3 eras. Back before Fantasy and galaxy. I began playing battledawn when you had to wait ticks for structures. When there were still "Barracks" and you didn't have overhead when your army was in there. Back when you could teleport a squad mid-flight if it was colony to colony or teleporter to teleporter.

I made a new account for this reincarnation of the game less than a year ago. True, but I've been around much longer than that.

The rule was made for a reason. Because without checks the game loses it's integrity, when that happens people stop playing. When that happens BD goes bankrupt.

You wanna donate $3000 go right ahead, you still get the resource boost. Only now you have to use those reds for a constant boost throughout the era. Just like you were supposed to all along.

If it truly hurts BD, I'm sure they'll just remove the cooldown all together since really that's what this is about. But when that happens it'll be you and about 30 other players. Do you think that's what the admins want? How successful would the game be then? How many new players do you really think will be coming in and staying.

Heck that's not even enough ppl to play one era. If that happens BD does die.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:38 am 
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trevor1601 wrote:
You keep saying it is bad and stupid for BD when it actually kills competition and makes smaller boosters stop boosting once this guy boosting 2k comes in at early tick and kills everyone. these people stop playing/stop boosting.

The reason you are boosting 2k is because your going through a loophole and buying other players boosts. Now Seth and Andrew have already said this is against the rules and will start being enforced more. There has been no mention of them wanting to change it so you can buy other players boosts.

please correct me if I am wrong.

-Trevor


It doesnt kill any competition. Seriously tell me, how many serious players do you find in any era on any server? There are 2000 people building their colonies yet only the top 3 alliances have any real power. So there is a lack of competition as is. If you want more competition reduce the number of servers. Bring people from all servers to a few servers, and then you will have competition. But blowing off supporters who spend a lot, does not increase or even balance the playing field. Now you will have non competitive servers with people that dont spend. That is what will kill the game.

The admins dont get it since there is a disconnect. About what the game needs and what decisions they think will work.

Quote:
If the rule was wrong why didn't any of you suggest that the "cooldown" was removed? Where's that topic?

The skill I'm talking about?
Being able to see when someone's going to betray you, being smarter that your enemy so that you can set a trap for them even if their army is larger. Razing certain OP's and moving to specific area to force your opponent to fight on your terms.


Check my earlier posts. I have suggested removing cooldown times. Cooldown times were added, so people dont spend money to win battles. Which itself is pretty stupid.

The skills you are talking about, is just common sense. There are very few options ingame and to think of them as strategy or skill is just too low, for my standards atleast. I would just think of them as regular gameplay. Today you cant win if you dont have the largest army. Flying seperately, and staying within 2 ticks of each other and concentrating while attacking, and setting a spy trap or two, does not show great skill or whatever. Spies hardly work, with good teams even with large infiltration points. As for trapping, if you dont do an attack more than 3 eta and dont attack fully controlled outposts, without concentrating your attack, then you are mostly good. All these dont mean skill.

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 Post subject: Re: ToS clarifications and update planned for this weekend!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:50 am 
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A game without fair and balanced play is not going to last long. everyone knows that. out of 1500 people on a server how many are boosting $2k?

If you cant wait and follow the rules to boost that much after cool downs that is your problem. and you should be punished for it. spreading 1k out between 1000 ticks is a lot more balanced than 1 player being able to spend it in 300 ticks. and it kills the competition at least from other gamers who dont spend 2k a round.

But like i said if you guys want to get a huge advantage(boosting with cool downs already gives you advantage) then make a seperate server where rules are not followed and we will see how profitable it is for BD when there are 200 people fighting each other instead of 2000-3000

-Trevor

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