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mrducky · **Posted:** Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:18 pm

Daganev wrote:

This discussion is starting to get silly.

What is "innate behavior", where does this behavior come from?
it is behaviour that does not need to be taught. ie, gagging when choking on food, shivering when it is cold or mroe complex behaviours like schooling by fish and migration by other animals. it can be as simple as a pod of whales sticking with each other to complex mating rituals involving "gifts" and some kind of dance or a more simple form is just human puberty. it is behaviour coded into ones genes and usually cannot be resisted. (try to kill yourself from holding your breathe)

What is "peer pressure", some mystical force?
it is seen in social animals, social animals through evolution have gained a need for interaction, anti social behaviour would usually spell death in the wild whereas safety in numbers brings many positives. lets say a little party of chimpanzees. as you know these are social animals, they can groom each other of parasites, protect territory which means food and breeding partners, a multitude of bonuses come with being with more members of the species. now if the chimpanzees move on and one of them dont move then that lonesome chimpanzee has a massively reduced survival rate. humans have an inate requirement for some kind of human to human interaction without which generally we would die in the wild as people no longer co operate.
so yes, it is harry potter, no. no... peer pressure is merely people following the crowd.

Why does something move when force is applied to it? What is the mechanism that makes this even possible?
is this still evolution? or philosophy?

I'm not sure what your story with gold is supposed to explain, or argue.
im pointing out that quantam theory doesnt have the same laws of physics governing the small molecules.

We know and understand how all these things work. They work via the transfer of information from one object to the next. Information, as has been proven, moves faster than the speed of light. However, this is impossible. (or so we thought) (you can look up the experiments of teleporting information faster than the speed of light on the net.)
thats teleporting. that doesnt result in what you are stating that my arm moves because i send info to it. where do you get your conclusions? are we still debating evolution or are you making stuff up as you go along.

Quote:

This discussion is starting to get silly.

i blame this primarily on you.

kennu7776 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:00 pm

Evolution > Slow Mutation.
Just sayin...

But yeah , i also agree.....

(i avoided a spam warning right there ^^)

Daganev · **Joined:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:25 am **Posts:** 231

Ducky again, you talk about things but you have no explanation for them. (unless you are just saying that there is some mysterious forces that make things happen in this world with no rational explanation.)

What causes you to gag before you actually get choked? etc. etc. etc.

Yes, we already know that quantum rules are different once you get into molecules... but the question is why? how? That should not be possible. (unless you want to say that some mysterious forces make things happen for no real rational reason)

Again, peer pressure is nothing but the moving of information from one individual to the next, causing all individuals to act as a larger unit. (Just like atoms make up molecules)

And I'm talking about all of reality, because evolution is just another small piece of it. (Unless there is some strange mysterious forces that cause things to happen for no rational reason, what is true in one place must be true in other places.)

mrducky · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:39 am

Daganev wrote:

Ducky again, you talk about things but you have no explanation for them. (unless you are just saying that there is some mysterious forces that make things happen in this world with no rational explanation.)

What causes you to gag before you actually get choked? etc. etc. etc.

its a PSYCHOLOGICAL REFLEX.
it is found in MANY MANY MANY species. it is where the organism does not have to directly command their body to perform the action. ie, you put hand on stove, pain receptor sends info via neuron to spinal chord or something, rather then go to the brain for commands, it returns from "insert something" and automatically orders hand to pull away.

ive already stated this millions of times, reflexes are a wonderful evolutionary survival aspect.

Yes, we already know that quantum rules are different once you get into molecules... but the question is why? how? That should not be possible. (unless you want to say that some mysterious forces make things happen for no real rational reason)

they have a reason, it has to do with the 6 fundamental forces and the quarks within and etc. etc. give me one example of quantam physics and i will explain it to you with rational answers with links included. it also has a lot to do with the wave like properties. these wave like properties stem from... yeah... just give me an example of quantam physics and i will return with joy.
and although quantam physics will not join harmonious with common sense or normal classical physics, all properties of quantam theory can be explained in the large world through observations and predictions. in fact, due to the extremely small nature of quantam physics, you can only give evidence of predictions and hypothesis by showing its effects with classical physics.

Again, peer pressure is nothing but the moving of information from one individual to the next, causing all individuals to act as a larger unit. (Just like atoms make up molecules)

oh really, cause you are starting to sound like a crack pot, i explained the psychological advantage and why such advantages would be selected for through evolution, you have just ignored what i typed.
i cbs typing the same thing. people move with the group because the group moves and there is an inner instinct it go with the crowd, to be social rather then the anti social emo noob.

And I'm talking about all of reality, because evolution is just another small piece of it. (Unless there is some strange mysterious forces that cause things to happen for no rational reason, what is true in one place must be true in other places.)

sorry, but this whole "information" thing hasnt got me convinced.its a nice little theory you have there.

Daganev · **Joined:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:25 am **Posts:** 231

"oh really, cause you are starting to sound like a crack pot, i explained the psychological advantage and why such advantages would be selected for through evolution, you have just ignored what i typed."

Great.. more magic talk. So evolution chooses pychology? or does pychology choose evolution? What exactly is pychology? firing neurons... which does what exactly?

Stop throwing abstractions above abstractions that you know nothing about and get down to the dirty details. Or just admit that you believe in magical thinking.

simmen · **Joined:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:32 am **Posts:** 15978

Daganev even i understood what he were saying, peer presure make the animals behave in a special way or be cut out of the groop, those who got the traits to adapt survive and the others die=evelution :O

Daganev · **Joined:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:25 am **Posts:** 231

Ok, but peer pressure by it's very definition is just information shared between members of a group.

Peer pressure is meaningless without choice and information.

mrducky · **Posted:** Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:56 pm

Daganev wrote:

"oh really, cause you are starting to sound like a crack pot, i explained the psychological advantage and why such advantages would be selected for through evolution, you have just ignored what i typed."

Great.. more magic talk. So evolution chooses pychology? or does pychology choose evolution? What exactly is pychology? firing neurons... which does what exactly?

Stop throwing abstractions above abstractions that you know nothing about and get down to the dirty details. Or just admit that you believe in magical thinking.

*faceplant*
look to what sinmen said, such psychology is selected for, different brains have different mentalities, those who have brains that give them an inate need to belong to a group can survive with the group, those that want to be loners get picked off by predators as a straggler.
the psychology isnt necessarily down to the firing of neurons, its the mentality that does it.

what part of the process did i explain was magical?

group mentality= survival.
individual loner mentality= death.
this may not be the case with some organisms where the competition for food would result in death if they bunched together but this is where peer pressure comes from. the inate need to belong as social animals that humans are.

Daganev wrote:

Ok, but peer pressure by it's very definition is just information shared between members of a group.

Peer pressure is meaningless without choice and information.

*head desk*
sometimes there isnt a choice, ie. a stampede of buffalo. one of them cannot go, "why are we running?" but sometimes there is, "HEY DUUUUUDE THIS CRACK IS GOOOOD, TAKE SOME MAN LIKE ALL OF US."
the information is the body language expressed by other individuals around you. if a lot move one way, you are likely to move one way also.

but this isnt some magical INFORMATION being the driving force. this is merely human behaviour, some of it being inate and reflex, that influences our choices and decisions.

Daganev · **Joined:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:25 am **Posts:** 231

You can facepalm and headesk all you want. It's not going to make you understand the simple fact that you are just giving different names to information.

When you read a book, the words you read become information.
When you "read body language" that is information.
When a nueron fires, it transfers information.
When two electrons have entangled spins, they transfer information.
When scientists teleport the entire information of an atom faster than the speed of light, they have teleported information.

Pysychology is selected by who? What does the selecting?
What is a "mentality" if it isn't just the firing of neurons?
Everything you write, points to a magical force controlling things. Wake up man!

simmen · **Joined:** Mon Jun 01, 2009 5:32 am **Posts:** 15978

*facepalm* <-- that facepalm came witout thinking, by reaction to what u wrote without thinking(sending information to hit myself)
nothing maical, it's a reaction that just happend, just like if u hit ur knee something shuld happend even if u don't think anything

ur thinking WAY to complicated at such a simple mather