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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:18 am 
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No the strategy wasnt available. We figured that the relic would have moved down out of our squads range as well. So we HAD to launch an eta 22 attack to it and not wait for the silo to be available. That was why it wasnt practical.

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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:10 am 
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Seth wrote:
I saw that only a few alliances were taking over with little activity after, and I figured I would randomly put the relics out (which I did. I paid no mind to who was where. All relics were placed completely at random except for the last one.)


A relic which was only to reach by 1 alliance (for the next 100 ticks) make the game more strategic?

Seth wrote:
Yeah. I wanted to make it interesting. I wanted to make it so that relics could not be taken purely by how much of the map you have taken, but rather force alliances to go after it, all the while being forced to keep a good balance and keep their fronts and defenses intact.


Then why not adding 0 units to 2-4 relics? This relics could have been taken by random alliances in the best case an alliance which is allied with NO and GIFT.

Seth wrote:

Yep. I did something different. I am human and not a bot. Us humans tend to do that. :lol:


To be honest, i wish you did it by mistake.
Placing a relic higly defenced near to an alliance with half of the power of the rank 1 alliance... sorry I still don't get your idea of how it make things more interesting for the players on that server.
And as for being a human: I got 133+ ticks no response to my mail about this relic. Also other ways to talk to you about that failed.
Being just a human is fine...we all are and exactly that is why i don't like to getting ignored. I am a human.

psg188 wrote:
You lost an extra 50 APC

Is that really the end of the world? If it was, you could have swapped John Doe's colony with a silo to shoot at the relic if you REALLY think it was that big a deal.


Its not about 50 APC more and you know that well. We saw that the relic didn't move randomly, it wasn't placed randomly and it wasn't defended randomly.

Be sure, we thought about swapping John Doe's base to a silo.
What if we did that and the relic would have changed the direction again or got suddenly imun against nukes too? 2 days more waisted and all our units are not gateable sitting on a damn silo which isn't working? Great idea.

Yes, we got forced to take the relic on the way we did.
Seth wrote:


A good strategist should never be afraid to be forced to improvise.


Nothing bad in that. Just wondering why NO was the only one which got forced.

Sorry Seth for my harsh words. You took active part on the server for the advantage of 1 alliance. Thats my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:52 am 
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I would have loved to be forced to do that Ilona.

We actually had to spread out across the other 80% of the world to find our relics, we didn't get 4 dropped for us near 1 continent.

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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:26 am 
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@Seth:

As much as i understand the Admins job, Admin's job is not to make the game "more interesting". for this there are developers, and decisions that are made in the mechanics of the game to make it better.
Admins are, or should be, like referees. making sure everything goes according to the rules, but WITHOUT changing them as they wish.
just imagine a referee in soccer decides that for one team a penalty kick will be from 15m instead of 11m, just because 11m is too easy to score...
or how about basketball referee, asking one of the teams to play with only 4 players because they are ahead with too many points.
ridiculous? this is what you did. relics should be out randomly.

@BD management:

BD administration and management should think and decide how this game should run. if admins are allowed to do whatever they want, please announce that. i personally wont play any game in which rules are subject for changings due to one person's mood during the round.

side note, it says when you log into the game, that you can leave a message to the admin and expect an answer in 24 hours. i really dont rememebr when this happend for the last time. and this goes lately for all the worlds i have been playing. if an admin answers after 150 ticks, you can be sure that it won't help anymore...


@Kevin:
Edit: So you are complaining about the only part in this that was actually as it should - random ?

Thanks for your advices, but i guess best thing of all would have been to give up those extra apcs like we did eventually. it still doesnt mean that it's ok and that we should put up with it.

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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:53 am 
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I apologize. I honestly didnt expect backlash like this.


My logic for this basically was that I saw that 2 alliances had consolidated the bulk of the power on E4,and relatively quickly at that! No matter where I dropped the relics, they would head into or very near those 2 alliances' territory. This seemed too easy to be honest. "Too fast and not enough of a challenge" I thought... Apologies.

Help me gain a little more understanding of the reasoning for this backlash if you will.

What exactly is it that is the primary complaint here? Is it that I played a hand in it at all? (keep in mind that 9 of 10 relics were placed and moved completely at random, and that even # 10 ended up moving at random even though I wanted it to stay still)


Is is that it was too challenging, which was an inconvenience, and forced you to alter your plans drastically?

How many people here are not associated with GIFT or NO?

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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:14 am 
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Quote:
We actually had to spread out across the other 80% of the world to find our relics, we didn't get 4 dropped for us near 1 continent.


Hey Kevin, we can swap what you guys have for what we have any time if you want :D so you dont really have to spread out too much :roll:

Seth, the primary complaint is, atleast in my view, that the relics were immune to ions, and out of nuke range, atleast it moved that way. I am not complaining about the number of units. If you wanted to make things challenging, you should have made a relic or two near GIFT who are twice as powerful as us, have more units in them. I scanned all 10 relics, and found each to have around 600 units on an average, except for the number 10 relic with 1400.

Even if that was fine, relics were immune to ions, out of nuke range, and therefore, we weren't able to kill units as effectively as we wanted to, with minimal damage. We just had to use a brute force approach and launch a max eta attack. My complaint is not in the challenge, but the way our options were contained by a choice you made for whatever reason. Ideally such a challenging relic should have been moved closer to either us or GIFT, so we could have used a nuke or two and then calculated the squads we needed to send and lost much less armor than we actually did. Or atleast the ion option enabled.

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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:36 am 
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Seth wrote:


What exactly is it that is the primary complaint here? Is it that I played a hand in it at all? (keep in mind that 9 of 10 relics were placed and moved completely at random, and that even # 10 ended up moving at random even though I wanted it to stay still)


I would not worry too much if I were you Seth, it is just NO venting... and you gave them a bone they are only happy to mince into carbon related pra-factors :)

the complaint as far i could tell is the following: the last relic was dropped, (though still in reach of NO only) too far, had more units defending than others and failed to get in range of their nukes, so they had to spend a bit more oil and metal sending more units than they hoped for (once they took it for granted that the last relic was dropped for them to catch) - see, they got the cake and eat it too, guess they missed out the complementary fireworks and are holding a grudge now...*sights

NO, i will say what Illona hoped we would not, you could refrain from spending all that oil and metal and your peace of mind and wait for us to get in it's range, we would not mind spending oil and metal to get it, actually we are willing to reimburse you with the both if you send it our way... scouts honour :P

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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:48 am 
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Juno, if you still don't get the point I am, Avi and Allen are talking about I feel a bit sorry for you and will use my poor english again to make you understand.

Admins should not interfere into the gameplay like Seth did.


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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:55 am 
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Juno, I hope you can TRY to understand what it is that is being talked about here, rather than run your mouth and come out looking stupid. You come here talking about how NO is complaining for no reason, yet you have no clue about the problem. We never said the number of units was an issue. We never said spending more oil and metal to gate units and launch for the relic was a problem. We never said we took it for granted that the relic was for us to take.

All we are saying is that a couple of ingame mechanics that could have been used to make the battle at the relic more efficient, weren't available to us, because of Seth's decision. And like Avi said, that has to be coded into the game as a feature for all to experience and it is a developer's job. Now like Kevin suggested before, we COULD have swapped JD's colony for a nuke, BUT we had to take a chance of losing the relic to GIFT because it would take 2 days for a nuke to get ready and who is to say the relic wont move out of range?, or take a chance with the nuke only to probably find out that the relic was immune to the nuke as well. So the best choice for us was to hurry up and launch a max eta attack, and sacrifice a few more APCs. Which is what we did. But that doesn't mean we have to put up with it.

And hey, thanks for that highly intelligent piece of advice, that no one could think of, about sending the relics your way. What a genious you must be !!! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: well balanced relics?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:14 pm 
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gipsy wrote:

Admins should not interfere into the gameplay like Seth did.


Admins in BD are doing the same job as Admins in any other free on-line game, they are trying their best to keep the game alive, populated and active (despite we occasionally hate them for the wrong reasons, as i think this one is one of those examples) ... in this role they will always interfere with the game like it or not ( e.g. banning is one of them..), often have to act as buffer between hostile alliances and try to keep it as unbiased as possible, and thus it is imperative that their actions and decision are always ultimately respected ( we, of course, complain and moan and vent.. but that is ok within reasonable limits) ... e.g. several of NO players were using GF to farm OPs planted for you ... i guess Seth was pretty laisse faire there, don't you think? We did not come to forums and made a big drama out of it, did we now? Former AOD sharing accounts was another example,... guys, do not put responsibility for your relative weakness compared to us on Seth shoulders, i'm positive he is the last person to be blamed for that ...

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