sub abuse should die. not you and twilight.

be respectful anyway lol

I am part of several great things already bro.. I'm in 3 awesome alliances already and they completely satisfy me.

Since you arrived late I will reiterate.
I want to try new things.
I want to be a part of a proper sub alliance, that communicates. When this thread was started I was Leader of a sub alliance and I had never even talked to anyone in the main alliance and was not affiliated with them in any way, I just happened to end up as leader after the previous leader left. Yet because of the name I was recognized and respected as a part of the alliance EVEN though I wasn't really as far As I knew. I thought it was extremely silly. That made me want to try and do things properly.

As for not wanting to lead. I could lead. I wouldn't mind that. I just believe that to have the proper motivations for this creation... and not to be corrupt. I should be willing to take whatever position is required of me.

And you can stop boasting about SYN. I've probably heard the greatness of them at LEAST 50 times now, on the forums. It gets brought up over and over and OVER and OVEEERRRR and when you aren't modest about it, after about the 10th time it starts to grate.

Yes, we all know what a fantastic run you had and how many units you killed. Now we were talking about something else before you had to butt in and explain yet again how great your glory days were -_-

So yes, please be respectful and try to be less of a braggart. Likewise, consider my ideas without shooting them down out of hand. It makes me think less of your intelligence.

This goes out to all of you recent posters who jumped on here since my last post saying things like "Subs all die" You know who you are

sorry for not defending the thread well.I am ashamed

Subs all die

TwilightMask,

No one is trying to boast about SYN greatness. We dont need to. Its out there . Naah, what tdoc and others wanted to say was show an example of how huge sub empires actually fail as in the case of the elements or totally kill the era as in the case of MGH.

Okay back to topic, if your sole purpose of creating a sub empire, is to be a part of something well coordinated, then you might wanna try making an alliance for yourself, and coordinate 12 members first. There are always gonna be people with some RL issues in whatever alliance you form, so overcoming those odds along with coordinating an attack takes a bit of an effort. Before you have tried that, if you attempt to coordinate something where you dont know players, dont know how they play or perform in war, where the numbers are more, you are certain to fail.

Try making an alliance first, and communicate and coordinate 12 folks - its hard as it is. Once you have done that, you will see you have an era won for yourself. And once you do that, you will lock this thread

gerber you wisearse

OK. going to try and write a complete post this time. First off, let's not let this thread descend into flaming. That means you tdoc.
If you want to try new things, hasn't sub abuse been thoroughly experimented with and hasn't history proven that it wrecks eras? What new things will you be bringing to the table, and how will this sub empire be different from the others that have er...failed the BD community?

mfreak, i fundamentally disagree with that, I believe NK is communist but I think if you're interested we can move that discussion elsewhere.

Now...twilights rebuttal of my previous post misses a couple things. Firstly, 8/12 alliances in top 12 being a win. In any era, there are maybe 4 competitive alliances that have a shot at first. Every self-respecting alliance should always strive for first place above all else. 8v1v1v1 is just completely unfair for those other alliances. Without sub empires in the way, each of the other alliances would have a fair shot at first, but with the sub empires they are massively overpowered. It is unfair to them because they are being denied a fair shot at winning, *yes I am saying that mass sub empires are overpowered*.

Now back to your rebuttal of my original, nonspaced post. Sub empires do have a habit of building, building, building, and then winning without major wars because let's face it, who in their right mind wants to get in a war with 6 other alliances?

Now. The winning thing is, imho, a terrible argument. Entertainment>winning any day of the week. Ask Haven what his fav era was--it was one he lost. One small example, others are everywhere so I won't even bother listing any more. Serious players check on, meh, 6 times a day at the least? People play games to have fun--I know people who've played this game for 3 years and have never won an era ( you know who you are). Sub empires kill entertainment, you haven't even tried denying this yet.

I wasn't around when BD was founded, and neither were you, but I doubt sub empires were around then. But anyways...entire servers are completely dead because of sub empires. Look at what MGH does every single damn era they play. Sub empires ruin entertainment

Oh and I might as well write this in big, big letters for those of you a bit thick to the head.
SUBS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM. SUB ABUSE IS.

If people don't communicate then out they go, well, good luck with your sub empire, you'll be hard pressed to keep together 15 people who constantly communicate, much less 50 people who can keep in touch with the other 49. And you've basically ceded the argument that no sub empires is better for communication than sub empires. "Furthermore, building community can be done far more efficiently through one or two sub alliances in major alliances. A decreased amount of people in a community means more time to get to know everyone and thus a tighter community, so we would build a tighter community" hello.

Note the respect towards alliances like SKY, note the respect towards alliances like SYN, FMJ, etc etc. They have won, but people do not hate them. Argument denied.

Note how my arguments get less and less clear in that post. Anyways...first off, winning does figure into a player's motivation, because guess what, majority of the time winning brings more entertainment than losing. People want to win, but people wanting to have fun is a higher need. If you aren't having fun in a game, you don't want to play, much less win. If you are having fun in a game, you want to win to have more fun. That should be clear, even to you tenk. Using an unfair strategy like sub abusing does hurt other people's chances of winning.

Now...I honestly don't see what the point of this thread even is. Why would we need to encourage sub abuse, it's been tried and tested numerous times already, and history has shown that it ruins eras. You said that your sub alliance will be different in terms of communication. It then follows that the performance of the sub empire will not be changed, and that it will, as always, ruin the era. That's just being selfish. Furthermore, GL with finding 50 dedicated players to this game that don't have preexisting alliances on one server that is willing to communicate actively with the other 49 members of the sub empire.

And for good measure,


My hill.

OMG ur inside my head. howd you know?

you said it somewhere. Think it was in your goodbye thread (you liar btw). I think...ferret played with you that era? Meh.