Kane, they won't bann people for being in subs because it will just be imposible to prove. but the features are made to keep subs out..

Hmm...I don't think Kane was contributing to this discussion.

Subs are fine because there are no rules against it.

You might as well use all possible means to win the round.
If you are fighting someone to death in real life and there just happens to be a knife are you going to use it? I would think so. The other person would say it is unfair if they do not have one but there are no rules against it.

Unless the admins ban subs they will continue to be used.

Of course many people hate subs, but it is their loss for not having one. I do not care whether or not an alliance has a sub, if someone asks to become my sub I would say fine, but I do not force players/alliances to become subs.

The only thing that determines whether or not you have/like subs is your own personal beliefs and they are different for everyone.

i claim them as a sub yes i will admit it i have before and wil time and time again , but the truth is ive basicly got an alliance to grow in our area i let them do their own thing except keep main allies allied , dont want them attacking a friend of mine the entire round and having me split to help both

nircas i didnt see what you typed ? where is it?

and it is not unfair to have 2 subs full of newbies who do not much when it comes to versing MEOW , you guys have the best players in the server and some of the best players in the entire game

what is really unfair is how 24 of the best player sbanded all up and dominated the server

which has also pre decided the round as there i sno stopping meow - well the wasnt until now ... and even yet we outnumber you and you still continue to dominate

it just shows skills and determination goes a long way as outnumbering only works as a deterent , so you guys really shouldnt complain about our subs as you have already proven that even with our subs you still kicked our butss

as for what jason stated before me , it is exactly right

we saw our advantage and we took it , as would any normal person . if your against subs thats just to bad as it is not against the rules so it is juts your opinion and doesnt effect me in the slightest

So next round for example, when we come back as Meow and only have 12 members. Are you still going to create subs?

I totally agree that 24 members full of veterans is hard to compete against but I don't see that as the case with Meow. Yes, we have some vets but me for example am not a vet. The only thing that subs do is compensate for lack of activity and skill, which you guys should have being that you have all played a heck of alot longer then me a few others.

5 months is still along time to play bd , you know how everything works and such

this is my first round on the new client , tho i have played for alot longer on the old client . we have very very few players who have alot of experience especialy in top alliances

i find myself somewhat of a mentor here , just yesterday i had 2 members asking me what happens when it reaches tick 5000 lol

so yeah as you said the subs compensate for lack of skill , given we have about 10+ first rounders and others who have played very little compared to the veterans in meow we need them

Personally, this is how I see subs of subs of subs:

Historically subs have originated from the begging of BD due to big alliances running out of space for members. Take POW. There at the beginning. Got POW2, POW3, POW4 and even POW5. Lots of subs mean a big force right? But why is it a bad thing? Lots of people just assume that. So at the begging of BD subs were just to increase the size of members in a force. Many great alliances have had subs. BUL especially. But if you don't have a sub doesn't mean you can't win. Big alliances with lots of subs can still lose to an alliance with no subs.

It isn't unfair! Both sides have the same advantages and disadvantages. Big alliances with subs have longer time to organise etc. But hits with a big damadge. Smaller alliances with no sub, take less time to organise but are less damadging.

Sometimes some NEWBS might try to make a sub under a big allliance name for their own protectiion not to help with the cause.

In conclusion subs are fine as long as they help the allance in some way and not just use them for their own protection. Also, now there are more members alowed for a alliance we should see less subs anyway. Also I hate ppl who abuse the system by farming subs

Subs are for the weaklings.

enough said

Agreed with Dommy.

And I'm wondering, has any alliance with a sub one a round on the new client yet?

ISKC with an epic victory.
All top alliances were subs, no one even posed a threat to us.
Ended in under 2,000 ticks IRRC.