No, Ping, I have first hand evidence.

Seth SAID he punished people before they did anything wrong because he expected they would do wrong (in his view, and inappropriately so to boot) soon enough anyway.

You were here, live, and have no better basis for comment than I have. I have Seth's words that he acted on people who had done ZERO wrong because he felt they eventually would do something wrong. Now, we've not really debated the merits of the bans he gave to people he had judged to have done something wrong, which, themselves were tragically tortured.

When an admin says what someone did was "arguably" farming, it means there's an argument it isn't, and, well, probably no rule was violated at all, given there's an argument and all. Ignoring that, you persist in ignoring what Seth has said here.

1. He banned some people who'd done nothing wrong because he expected they would soon.

2. He'll always ban people before he can prove they've done something wrong because people ask him to.

3. The people he did act against had an argument to make, but he didn't let them, he banned them and then let them make it.

What motives to you have to ignore those three things?

Focus mostly on the first two, as the third we've not really touched. The plain and simple fact is you are more hyper partisan to Kevin than I am as I rationally think he's a BD genius who is the shizzle and yet is a flawed, somewhat myopic person who displays inconsistent tendencies. You view him as someone you'd trust your "life" with as you've said.

It's ok to call bull even on a friend.

Kevin believes his bull and I don't hold it against him, but, what Seth does is, flatly, purely, wrong.

An admin came here and told you he banned people he thought would eventually do something wrong.

You need to jump up and down and demand he stop that nonsense, even when it helps you.

What we did was not against the spirit of the game in any way. The spirit of the game is to use strategy as much as you can. If we had equal amount of squads as you, we wouldnt have done it. But outnumbered we had to get a bit innovative and there is nothing wrong with thinking up something out of the box. This is what we did, and it perfectly stays in the spirit of the game. What you did was use a known loophole. What we did was uncover a loophole that even we didn't know was one. It makes us that much more innocent.



Like I said before, nothing in the ToS, or any other rule or opinion so far stated in BD, has ever stated that these colonies were slave colonies. They were valid colonies and it was a valid tactic.



The creator of the game did not specify anything against this particular tactic. It was a loophole that came to light after we did it. And the colonies would not have done what they did without being willing to do it. Unless they were multies, but its clear they were not.



It still doesnt make any difference. How long a colony should stay in an alliance is not listed anywhere. Heck a colony can stay just 1 tick, leave and give crystals. That is NOT against the rules anywhere. Calling them slave colonies repeatedly does not make them one.



Slave colonies are used for the purposes of resources or spamming. According to the rules. We used him as a member, and he performed a members function. I.e let us use his gates. Get it right.



It still does not make it slave abuse. He joined as soon as he dropped protection. That is not against the rules by any means. Neither the creator of the game, nor the admins or the developers have defined such a colony as a slave ever.



Ive said this numerous times. Single purpose colonies used for the sake of other things than resources are not slaves. They are legitimate members that did their job.



Yes they were supposed to build nukes and nuke you, just like your subs sent nukes to us. Nothing wrong with that. They were not marked blue, so Avi went ahead and took it, against Dees telling people not to. That is also not a violation.



Again, I never said we assumed it was ours. I never said, you didnt have a right to claim it as much as we did, or anyone else did for that matter. My only concern was that we should have been able to nuke or ion those relics. Which is perfectly legal and it is what you would do if you had to kill units more effectively.

As for the rest of the points, I would reiterate them. They werent slaves. And it was not farming.Farming is large scale resource harvesting and that is what the ToS say. This wasnt the case here.

Of course in warfare you want the balance of the game to tip in your favor to win. Everyone knows this. Our original plan was for us to attack Africa while making you lose SA. But obviously Seth was too quick to intervene and ruin everything. That does not however make anything illegal.



The primary admin was wrong. There was no proof. The ToS were misinterpreted. Ill play where I want, but there has to be only one interpretation of rules everywhere. That is the whole point of the argument. Saying E4 will have its own rules just doesnt make any sense and is totally unfair.



You dont need to care that I am dissapointed. We didnt share passwords, abuse farms or use slave colonies. Just because someone interpreted them as such does not mean we did it. SEcondly I am not teaching you any lessons in morality. I dont believe in morality ingame, I have my own sense of integrity and I am at peace with myself, unlike you that maybe has the need to prove something to someone. I am totally not frustrated with the era. The only frustration if at all I have, was the fact that we were not let to fight because of Seths actions, as I am not one to shy away from a battle. If you misinterpret arguments as hatred, you are free to do so, I am not here to change opinions, just state mine. But it shows, that you are being childish and immature over a game, and again it isnt my problem. Its solely yours. But personal opinion here and that too out of goodwill, because obviously you dont consider us friends anymore - Its probably time you quit the game and took a deeper look at how much this game is important to you, your ego and your self esteem. You'd be apalled. You might go on to type a rude or an insulting comment, but that doesnt change the truth now, does it? Maybe its because of that you choose to call your actions "Bringing a flaw to light" and what we did as a "violation".

BTW You play the game well alright. But you certainly pull every trick in the book and you have done things similar. So I wouldnt add too much of credibility to your repeated accusations of dirty tactics.

You misunderstood my analogy, The point I was putting across is that the person phoning the police reported the suspicion. If the police did not respond by sending someone out and they HAD in fact been robbed it would have been the polices fault for the robbery. Whereas if they react with the force needed too the atrocity could be avoided and the property owners possessions would remain safe. And to use the "Crowbar" as the Gate for the scenario it is illegal to carry that crowbar around (In the UK at least) because you cannot posses a weapon in public. This is the same for the gate which was planned from the multi, It should not have been built for that soul purpose. It gives an unfair advantage.

Anyway fellas, I am done with this topic and with BD for the next 6 months or so. Have bigger fish to fry.

So here to all GIFT members:

Congrats on a good game. This was a big money round, and pity it had to end like this. You are all great players, so I dont wanna quit with a grudge. Wish all of you well. Have a good one now and in the future.

And my team: I love you all !! Enough said. Ill be on Skype and MSN as usual anyway on our group chat and we'd be havin fun!

PS: Lemme come after 6 months and see if something is for the better.

Everyone else, keep in touch. Peace out.

As I was part of the reason this topic was started, let me make one thing clear. This to me is not about whether Gift victory is deserved - it is. It is not about arguing with Kevin about the philosophy of merit and morals BD-style. Everyone knows when you argue with Kevin you end up in a mental institution or just accept what he says for the sake of your sanity.

This is about admins and their role in the game. Let me make something clear...admins are here to RENDER US A SERVICE. We are the clients they are employed to enhance and ensure our gaming experience. Their role is to make sure the servers run smoothly and that PROVEN ABUSE or SET RULES is avoided.

At no time should an admin make value judgments, subjective decisions or any other kind of ad-hoc enforcement of imaginary rules based on their erotic fantasies.

All seth did wads ruin an era for two great alliances and for everyone else playing, by taking things into his own hands when noone asked him to and by making random bans which cost me my army, BD one of its top donors and E4 a great era ending.

So by all means seth and all other admins get it through your heads: we do not need, want or care for your value judgments. Any ban for other than proven abuse is unfair, uncalled for and detrimental to the game.

Personally I will never play another era where Seth is admin as long as he does not apologize for what he did and make a clear commitment to never interfere with the game in his sole discretion again.

We are clients, you are here to service us. As simple as that. When we want value judgments and foresight from admins we will ask for it...till then do what you are paid for and stop ruining BD.

By all means seth...do the poll.

But more importantly IMPLEMENT any restrictions you decide are needed in-game. Keep people who join from having operational gate for 24 ticks. Keep people who join from sending or receiving resources for 100 ticks - which you already did. Keep conquered people to be used as gates.

if you want something done do it via the game interface...not by your random calls.

You ruined my era with your 6 tick ban and you know it. Nothing to do about it now. I don't even want compensation. My punishment is not spending another cent in BD till i see some progress, more clear rules and less discretion for admins to issue bans as they please.

same here...so we all agree that this is a fine mess and a lose-lose for everyone

now let's try and fix it somehow shall we?

i said what i had to say...take care