Fair enough, I can agree with everything you said above. I'm sure there's some shinning new generation players, but they are rare from what I've seen. And I doubt GML will use any excuses. They will give it their all and we'll just have to see if their all is enough or if the competition has the strength to thwart them.

Being one of the "new generation", I can say that it sucks to see the newer generation being labeled like that. Perhaps the game has changed in terms of it being less about being honorful and keeping your NAPs, yes. I was not around back in the days you talk about to see how it was then, so I would not know.

However, I am a new player and I dare say you are hard pressed to find a single person that can either my activity or my skill/knowledge of the game. As far as relationships being important, I can only agree. But it that not largely what GML depends upon as well? The way I see it, you need good relationships to be able to have 5+ subs (not sure about the number currently) listen to you and coordinate in a well-behaved fashion. Battledawn has always been largely about relationships, it's an intrinsical aspect of the game.

Completely not wrong to hand relics etc., Its called adapting to change.

I've heard back in the OC, boosting was not very heavy. Having 20 or 25 squads was considered a big deal. Ive heard that boosting 100 USD was considered heavy boosting.

Today the game has changed. Today we have people like Andrei that will spend 5000 USD if he is so motivated. Today you can be reasonably active and built 50 squads.

So when you have invested so much of money in the game, the game isnt about fun wars and strategy, it ismore about return on investment. The only reason you throw in such cash, is to win. So you make sure you win. If you cant, you take the next best deal.

Lastly, I dont think OC players are legends. I dont think there is any legend on BD. Its a freakin game. There are no legends. FFS.




I totally disagree with that.

a) Ive seen extremely good players, some of them even better than many OC players in the NC. Milan, Ilona, Rania etc etc are all great players. And they know the game inside out.

b) OC or NC, there is not much skill needed in BD as a whole. Its not rocket science and there are not many strategic options available. And thats a fact. The OC might have had a few more, but doesnt really mean anything. Another reason for the "skill" element being thrown around in BD, is because of the exclusivity that certain players enjoy. New players are hardly respected, or are taught the game. Would any top team recruit a totally new person to the alliance? A lot of people attach ego and pride to the game, which is kinda pathetic. So it simply boils down to a lack of familiarity with the game rather than a lack of skill.

So lets keep it real, and keep the chest thumping and measuring contests minimal people! There are no legends, there is no skill....there is none of that.

Legends this and that, skill this and that merely play a compensatory role from a person's personal standpoint. They are not fact.

Well as my friends have told me many times over the years since we started playing BD is like video Crack Cocaine once you try it you hooked But it is just a game have fun

There were people who boosted thousands in the past too, it just mattered less as large armies could die by things simple as movement. Games aren't a return of investment, even if you score high you get pretty much nothing in blue tokens. What changed was that BD used to be played by a lot of players with the attitude of, "All or Nothing". There's a few reasons for that.

The new relic system allows the giving of relics without losing anything meaningful, the removal of food simplifies the game making it lose interest from more hardcore strategy players, further it also allows for far larger armies to be used which in turn buffs donations, buffs long term production (the new mines, boosting, relics) over the snowball effect (conquering). I can start mentioning a whole washing list, but you get the point. The game no longer in terms of gameplay, encourages people to go for everything or nothing. To insist on complete domination or to reach a point where you cant really increase your score without expanding. It's much more feasible to finish top 10 now without ever fighting anyone and much less tempting to kill off the remaining alliance after winning, thus making the remaining alliance less scared of it happening anyhow and more eager to strike deals.

Is it wrong? No. But is it wrong for someone who doesn't have access to water to taste mud? Not really. Still shows a flaw in the system, however.

The effects decrease competition, in the long run. You learn more by lots of warfare then by lots of victories.



That is true, but in the game, you assume a certain role. Relativity mate. It is a lot more fun to consider yourself a conquerer of colonies then a clicker of many colored dots on a computer screen. The social control aspect, the close ties in the community, are part of what made people keep coming, part of what made the game feel very much "real" to some of us. OC had a very strong political taste to it, one that was very unique and special. That, is, unfortunately, pretty much gone entirely.

Long speeches at ends of era's - idolisations, propoganda wars to have conquers rebel and allies rally to you. It felt epic, special, real. It made the game different. I miss it, I think many of the OC do.




I don't think he was trying to imply that there was no good new blood, I think he was trying to imply there are less then in the past. In the past you could assume every top 10 alliance on every world would spytrap you and go for the win. Was pretty epic stuff.



BD used to a bit more complicated mostly due the food system and spy system back then and significantly harder to master. As with NC, relatively simple systems apply to so many possible tricks and strategies, the smallest change can have huge effects. Same applies by removing just a few features.

Say the nuke feature by itself isn't all that special. But remove it and you kill a massive amount of strategies. See my point?



Skill lies in many points, but keep in mind that Chess is a very simple game too. Difficulty to master is as important as difficulty to learn, more important when it comes to strategy, in fact.

Couldn't have responded to any of those better Alexander. You pretty much summed up all of my thoughts ^^

You can say there's no skill, my apologies, I should have phrased it differently. IMO, skill is equivalent to strategy in this game. There is still a lot of strategy that can be put into game play. This is chess on steroids, heck warhammer upgraded even (but with less luck involved and more politics). However, many of the newer generation rely on brute force from boosting rather than strategy. And once again, not saying all NC players follow this rule of thumb. I've just noticed a much higher trend of it than the OC days. There is no doubt about some of the newer client players who have made an impact. Yes, Milan, Rania, and Ilona all being very iconic figures of the NC. But the majorities play style has changed drastically since the OC and that is where most of the complaints come into play from the OC players.

I do believe there are legendary players on this game, so sue me. If you look back at the last 5 or so topics, you'll probably see Kane mentioned in just about every single one of them. Why? Because he was one of the best players on BD and many would say he still is.

But anywho, we have gone waaaaay off topic here. Though it came about because of talk about the past and GML, we are now just arguing about OC v. NC. This is a thread for GML vs BEER and LoVe. We've kinda butchered it. Let's try to move on. If you feel the need to write more about this, I would suggest making a new topic somewhere.

Dunno if this thread became a place for debate or a place to post BRs ._.

ROI in the sense, that you win. Thats why you put in lot of money. You dont wanna spend a lot and get conquered and lose. That does play into the decision making process. Sometimes people hand relics so that they dont finish at the bottom after spending all that money, but go for the next best deal.



Thats what I meant, when I said the game has changed. There are not many strategic options available. Sure they could be brought in, but at this point, there isnt many. And there is a reason for this. The game was made much more simpler, so that people learnt the game faster and new players signed on and stuck with this game.



Tricks and strategies are not many. In the Nc. And even if it was the OC, the tricks and strategies are not something that are difficult to figure out for any average person. Like I said, a lack of familiarity with the game, does not imply a lack of skill. You yourself said it. It was a very small and close community. And therefore a very small sample size. Hardly enough to judge people as being legends.



I agree Kane is a great player. But I only consider people good or great players. I dont consider anyone legends. I mean its a team game. Anyone can become a legend surrounding himself/herself with some of the best players around. So its not so much of an achievement to win era after era. Maybe our standards are different, so lets agree to disagree and move on.

It's a war about GML n subs VS Beer, Love, Lost and IND...

Plz edit the thread title to be more accurate about the reality..