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mfreak · **Posted:** Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:34 am

Pakistan is facing a double edged sword. Whichever side they take they are gonna get hurt. Pakistan has historically used terrorism as an extension of its foreign policy against India. They have supported, bred, trained groups like the LeT, Al-Qaeda etc and even during the Soviet Afghan conflict, it was the Pakistani forces in conjunction with the ISI that trained and armed the Mujahideen, of course taking aid from the US.

Now, after 9/11 when the US told Pakistan - "Either you are with us or against us", Pakistan very safely sided with the US. It worked well for a while in the form of Aid and in the form of friendship offered by the US by calling Pakistan an ally in fighting terrorism. But it soon started backfiring. The terrorists at home became disgruntled, and Pakistani citizens are now victims of terror much like any american or Indian. The Anti american sentiment in the country is high. They dont trust the Americans in light of what happened with Operation Geronimo.

On the other hand, the Americans have also started losing trust in the Pakistani establishment. So now Pakistan is treading a very fine line and if they dont play it right, they could either become a war torn nation attacked/controlled by the US, or be devastated by terrorism bred from within the country. They need both the US for their growth, and the terrorists to use against India for the Kashmir conflict.

pbleebait · **Posted:** Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:43 am

Did you know america is not an original country?

Many discoveries like Albert Einstein for example was no american. He was only brought to the US since he was excelling.

In my Opinion, US didn't originally excel in education. It was the people they brought from other countries that caused america's current power, not the Britts.

mfreak · **Posted:** Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:50 am

Of course. The native americans were the tribal population. America was the new world, a country where people from all other parts of the world resettled to start over.

Even now, its not "Americans" that put america in such a dominant position. Its people from all over the world, who've either immigrated to, or immigrated many generations earlier.

tdoc25 · **Joined:** Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:15 pm **Posts:** 219

Cold hard truth's of war ...

Dies - Thrives
....... .........
privacy - deceit
knowledge - propaganda
market - government
liberty - power
freedom - security
entrepreneurs- politicians
labor- bureaucracies
citizens- special interests
conservation - destruction
capital- depreaciation
babies - bombs
health- famine
society- insanity
life- death

Now we push into another country

Seth · **Posted:** Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:51 am

Yeah. Our country is in teh crapper. No doubt about that.

My only solace in it all is that my countrymen are slowly but surely waking up and getting wise to the ruling elite and what they are doing.

True capitalism is still the best way imho, however, it cannot go unregulated as it has been for some time now, and the reality of the results...well if you live in the USA you need only look around.

It really starts here though. It starts with the citizens waking up and discussing things like foreign policy and the Wall Street - D.C. mutual corruption and the "revolving door" of politicians who are CEOs of military industrial corporations or wall street banking firms (for example)

Freedom is a funny thing. Too much of it causes people to become complacent and indulgent in the false sense of security they gain from it. In reality though, my people fail to understand that the very freedom they take for granted was forged in blood fighting against tyranny, and that the very ideal of tyranny still exists and is actually stronger than ever.

Our forefathers understood this, and tried to tell us and prepare us by forging documents such as the bill of rights and the constitution. Those are the very things that made our country so great! They told us in historical ways that we had to remain vigilant and prepared to fight for that freedom, as there are many, and I do mean many that seek to subvert it.

Now, I know its hard to believe. Like I said, we have become so complacent and used to being free, that so many of us cannot seem to fathom what dictators are, or how free people countless times through history have become oppressed! What we see now is history repeating itself, only in slightly different and more modern ways!

A great example of this is the nazi Bush family. These people have been idealistic for a long time. The whole family period. You dont have to take my word for that, you have the internet, go check for yourself!

However, most of my people seem to have trouble believing that nazis still exist at all! Let alone that they still seek to enforce their idealism, and that they seek to subvert freedom!

The truth is, not only do they exist and seek these things, but there are alot more than just the bush family, and in fact, much much more sinister. The real scary thing about that is that these groups of people not only exist, but they are powerful, wealthy, intelligent, organized and hell bent on seeing their agendas through.

in our society, they have manged to manipulate enough of us to be ignorant and indoctrinated with propaganda so much that we are divided. Enough of us choose not to believe so much that people like me who seek out truth and uncomfortable facts, are quickly dismissed as conspiracy nuts, and the news does not lie.

There is an old saying...somthing about "divided we fall"..you know it?

The only thing that is going to heal this country is for everyone to wake up and understand that these groups do exist, and that they are manipulative and powerful and organized. In order to meet them and defeat them, we have to stand as one and simply refuse to go along for whatever sick ride they have planned for us.

Its a stretch currently, but my hopeful side refuses to believe it is impossible.

It has to start somewhere though. In that respect, I feel that discussions such as this are good. Talk about it. anylize it. Seek out facts, no matter how uncomfortable they make you feel. Talk to your friends and family about it.

Read and memorize the bill of rights and constitution. Understand it. Feel it. Want it. Live it.

every journey begins with the first step. Right now on wall street, there are people who are taking the first steps. They may not understand that the real problem is government deregulation of wall street, and left unregulated, the capitalists will capitalize, and that the federal reserve is really at the root of it all as well, but at least its a start!

mfreak · **Posted:** Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:21 am

Quote:

True capitalism is still the best way imho, however, it cannot go unregulated as it has been for some time now, and the reality of the results...well if you live in the USA you need only look around.

Pure Capitalism IS what caused this Seth. I dont support communism either, but whoever said Capitalism is better than communism. Communism as represented by the Soviet Union or China is not communism at all. Communism is just another propaganda, ideal just like Capitalism. I personally believe that these two ways of governing a nation can only work with the others presence. Capitalism makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer. People that are rich will do anything to get richer and a capitalistic society promotes that. Socialism or communism on the other hand works for the poor and the downtrodden. These two systems should co-exist to work imo.

tdoc25 · **Joined:** Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:15 pm **Posts:** 219

Wow thanks so very much for this very intriguing perception of our reality we're facing Seth ! Your way of words are pretty powerful and deep in which i love to read and can do so everyday.. As well as you Deadman you and i have had many private discussions that innitially helped me to see things from many diffrent perspectives..!!

I began searching and reading trying to understand these things you guys see so slearly.. I just wish i had the knowledge to fully express my opinions in the way i want to when people blindly account whats happening as you guys can !!

In which my determination in wanting to know and learn the truth will better open my eyes, instead of solely listening to these politicians and others around going by what they've heard on T.V. or friend instead of seeking the real truth .,

As Seth has said more people are coming around slowly but hopefully it can be enough so and soon enough before it really gets to late.. But this is why i made this thread not only for me to learn but for anyone interrested in hearing the truth and perspectives of others, I know maybe it's not enough to make a "dramatic change" but if it can reach several people who can reach several people then it has made a diffrence .... !!

Conditions for quarters of soldiers
(ammendment 3)
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
So if they declare martial law it is no longer declared a time of peace?

Seth · **Posted:** Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:58 pm

Actually, we are already locked in a never ending war against a never ending stream of faceless boogey men.

Think thats unrealistic? If you think so, you should ask yourself what purpose holding a dead man out there as just such a boogeyman for 10 years to justify just such a never ending war, would serve edgewise?

Have a read:
News report from Dec. 2001 "Bin Laden Already Dead"

mfreak · **Posted:** Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:06 pm

I still wonder, what the big hurry was, in giving Osama a burial at sea without even releasing a pic of his body.

Could have just been to blame Pakistan as well, ya know.

dylsupreme1 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:02 pm

"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006. ~George W Bush

That's just such a quote... I had to put it up here. :lol:

How you feel about U.S. ?